Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. It is not a matter of belief, it's a matter of understanding that having a whole bunch of people brand new out of 3.0 in 5.X is a problem. And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Powered by Invision Community. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. Isn't it also truethat many of the people who play the american tree only play the US tree? Side turret is 150mm or higher so angling is really easy as well. While it is true that there were +1.0 uptiers some of the time, it was not perpetual as some people claim. For Centurion Mk.3 vs King Tiger H, The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. Rare, but happens from time to time Few wants to go for the objectives (which is more understandable when you consider the caps' terrible earnings) but fewer want to accept the consequences of not going for them. You won't have the same luxury. but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. You can pen various parts of the of them and can with apcr. german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7. What about T95? Pretty immune to 88's. For instance: in the M18's case, this is manifest in its far greater bounciness. Having the Panther 2 in game used to alleviate this problem and give 6.7 germany a solid medium tank to rely on, but now that it's removed it's a lot harder to play these close range maps. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. You don't need to win the match in the first 5 minutes of the game, late games are a thing. This works both ways, ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. And it is this knowledge that will the panther driver often stop from advancing beyond certain points on the map, because he thinks: " There is probably a M18 on the enemy team and based on my experience and knowledge of the map I know that beyong this point there is a high chance that the M18 is somewhere on the edge of the map behind a hill and is waiting till I leave my cover. So, lets dive in to look at some of the most common claims: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. Most guns can penetrate it from the front. Now the GER 6.7 lineup is missing a proper medium to counter some of the russian meds. The merits of ground vehicles rely on the triad--armor, firepower and mobility. Last thing is that Centurions have a lower top speed than king tigers but have much better acceleration and reactionary mobility, and the ability to fire on the move means they have overall greater effective mobility on the battlefield, One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. It's scary and you die whichever you run into. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. Which means all you need to do is spot him first, then he's basically done for. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. Come on, you know that your arguments is purely theoretical and doesn't work on most WT maps. Their is a perfect blend of fast paced numbers (Warcurse, Escalation) and slower, more groove-oriented thrash in the vein of Pantera's Cowboys From Hell, in particular Destroy What Destroys You. When it comes to the points I made about the armor, I have had my AMX-13 bounce off the side turret numerous times, it really is that thick. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. 2. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Nope, reversing back takes forever, turning as well and will expose your sides, running forward to flank doesn't work either. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. In an uptier when being met by a T54. that's it. But he still requires to go through your turret so mixing it up and not sitting is what's the best option to proceed at those ranges. But if you miss me or I see that you are aiming at me, then it is easy for me to get in cover. Spitfires can see the issue. Side turret of T__ is also twice as thick as king tiger so it's less vulnerable to flanking. Even I--a German player myself--am commonly hounded over this, despite presenting a great deal of strong testimony thats based on many years experienc. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. But you can reach it fast enough as it'll be on your quarter of the map, the faster tank is the one whoneeds the half map. My general thoughts on what causes Germany to suffer: The Germans' main undoing are their teams--there's no doubt about it. And T are not impenetrable unless you're downtiered and there are spots you can go througg although theybare easily covered up. LORRAINE 40T AT 7.7?? (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. Slow vehicle that suddenly appears. I'd recommend not making part of the argument then to begin with, The argument is that a more mobile tank has the better "tools", traits call it however you want to exploit this knowledge. Those things are a really easy kill as long as you see them first. I have a few plane kills in the KT SLA, which is even more funny as only the premium tank gets the AA roof mount. And im asking how your angling it. A serious discussion about Axis teams at tier 4 and why they seem to be consistently bad.PLAY WAR THUNDER FOR FREE AND GET 50GE FOR FREE: http://warthunder.. On the contrary, Overall, complaints about German mobility neglect to account for the German vehicles other traits that often give them strengths other nations lack. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. About Press Copyright Contact us Creators Advertise Developers Terms Privacy Policy & Safety How YouTube works Test new features Press Copyright Contact us Creators . I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions. The Tiger II Sla.16 is the one outlier in Germany 6.7. panzer ii german light tank sdkfz 121 world war photos. They have large gun built on small and light chassis, so the weight of the gun makes it bounce after braking. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. Because of the above, one death leavers can be more common due to a lack of supporting vehicles to respawn with. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. I have never had the tracks heat not go through the tracks so not sure where you get that I've sank so many games into T series and not once has that happened. And that is harder than the relatively obvious strategies for Soviet and American vehicles, especially when the allies can grab the objectives AND the flanks and wait until they win by ticket bleed. 3 . The only way the Germans can use their strengths to dominate such maps is with good teamplay. SIKE German mains am I right? Ugh. Don't know maybe deserve a new play again. I mean this thing has a chance to kill KT frontally by spamming around the turret ring and it can take out the gun barrel within 2-3 shots.When the M41 of a German player is destroyed, well you can go panther which is not the best when it comes to maneuvering, or perhaps a puma which can get shredded by .50 CAL. (Petrol tanks under turret basket magicallyexplode when turret penned). buy panzer ii amp luchs the world war ii The Arado B-2 has a great flight model, very maneuverable and easy to pull up out of a dive attack. Hardly an advantage. It's strengths clearly outweighs it's burdens when the game is based around city/village structures. According to this complaint, Germany's mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. they're glass cannons. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. interactions? Just check the loadout on allied planes. T92, T114 are the most common culprits but yes there are more. India. I think a topic you missed is also CAS. What is the Caernarvon? Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. And the T30 which has a 30 second reload on a 200mm round penetration is sad to say the least and in my opinion off that its worthy if 6.3 due to that fact but thats a different discussion. Japan's OP type 90 has been given an equal. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. He will retreat and find a way around you. When I play american tanks I always use the .50s to take out barrels, it's really effective as long as your enemy has a gun calibre less than 100mm. There's also the issue of the T__ having 6 crew all very well spaced apart, so if by some miracle I get lucky enough to do damage the T__ will just reverse away at high speed and repair. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Getting ahead is stupidly hard. You cant carry against so many players. It was introduced in Update "Red Skies". The complaint is one thats pretty common for all nations--uptiers. It's not a perfect strategy as it weakens the cheeks, but I've had a lot of smart american players turn their turret at the last second for an easy bounce. Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. Kingtigers are best tanks for german tree even if it has nerf. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. I'll give you a half point for this one as I clearly said the M18 will head to your spawn after it caps, Well if it makes you feel better stranger things have happened. Apds isn't guaranteed damage actually put rounds through things and have done no damage on many occasions. Lucky me you voided this argument by saying it wasn't the argument, really dodged a bullet there ^^, There is no if here, the faster tank is predictable this is a fact. I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. Eh, the significance of this is overstated. Does Germany suffer and from what? I want to see where you are shooting and with what cause even when i play the AMX M4 which has 215mm of pen btw I've never bounced off the side of a T series tank. The blinding effect happens but its not as bad as your saying it is. As for the Bf 110G, it is superb--it's only fault is that it's ranked as a Tier II rather than a Tier III. yes in the real world and on paper, but in a game where you play the same maps over and over again and know all the ways hideouts. Only switch to the 3rd auto gear if going down hills and on flat roads. Both the american 76mm and the russian 85mm will penetrate that front plate if not correctly angled. Arado B-2 with 3x 500kg bomb as light bomber. All in all, these things boil down to the sort of trade offs that are to be expected. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. It would actually give Germany some nice, War Thunder map friendly brawling options, like T-34's, IS-2's, T-54's, as well as some lower BR MBT's with decent armour, like T-55's, T-72's etc. What about T95? If you turn it to the side you just shoot the huge side of the turret. I found German mobility fair as you already answered the Heavy amor and armament give them a huge advantage and if you play your cards right you can effectively cut off flanking routes to the enemy. That's your personal preference. Most american team comps I see are at least 80% heavy tanks but they get away with it because their heavies can actually reliably bounce shots. With enough skill and fine tuning, you could push your plane past it's normal usage by other players who do not use MEC. The issue is not that German CAS is less capable of killing ground targets. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. Isn't it a bit dishonest to completely "forget" to bring out the more negative aspects of the panther? Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. People like to complain about the cause being UK 6.7, but tanks like the Panther II have almost double the games than any of the UK tanks. "situational" any map with a rock, wall, or building allows you to take advantage of the stabilizer. They still exist just can't be unlocked by new players anymore. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. No, it really isn't. So if you fall for him turning the gun and you still shoot the breach rather than the side of the turret thats a player error and isn't much of a arguement. One thing to mention is that german 6.7 is actually really good against soviet 6.7, it's the stabilized brit APDS ATGM throwers and impenetrable american T__ heavy tanks that really hurt. No, the good players, because we need to play with this.. other 90% of the other players, that only got enough braincells to press W. Just carry, its what I do. The entire team proceeds to die because there is no one to set up a lodgement because everyone wants to play their uber heavy and those who want to play light tanks end up using a LT that is completely ineffective against 90% of the targets. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. Puma 50mm Panzergranate has pretty low post pen damage on higher tier tanks. A COMMENTARY ON THE BOOK OF LEVITICUS - Bonar. Those three qualities are what control the tank's ability. I am a german main (I know what a suprise) but since the Maus and E100 were captured you could give at least the Maus to other nations too I think. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Just shoot turret for an easy penetration anywhere within 2km, and watch as the king tigers ammo gives a nice firework display. Justifications for War and Peace in the Scriptures of the Abrahamic Religions. In other words it's very hard to find a proper backup. Welcome to r/Warthunder. You can do just as well with a vehicle that has different strengths if you use those strengths correctly. The most frustrating thing about these engagements is how random it feels to play against a T__. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. The first two points can be resolved by reforming the German tree to not have the jumps that it has and by requiring players to unlock more vehicles to progress to such higher BRs (as other nations have). Just hide behind a hill or a tree and wait till the panther finally arrives, and then shoot that big juicy target in the side (i do that all the time, the best vehicle to kill king tigers is actually the M56 Scorpion). The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). The Panthers' reverse situation is one that's not terribly extraordinary because poor reverse speed is a commonplace of many tanks--particularly those of the British. Step forward progressively, oh how I haven't seen that argument before. at one point or another, with the severity of this problem varying widely. Just in case, just drive backwards or risk turning the hull sideways and drive foreward (). Just an observation maybe its just me. However it does not. Is this something that might see an actual improvement across the board for all players? Yeah, how is that even an argument? How do you bounce on a flat piece of armour? This is especially visible while on 6.7 when vehicles of the same tier can lol pen Tiger II upf. sdkfz 123 panzerspahwagen ii luchs fast . Other nations have a lot of fast backups with good guns, like the M18, T114, M50, ASU 85, Falcon etc. Mobility - and this is actually the main point. warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. panzer ii light tank military history. Download Free PDF View PDF. You have to angleit correctly to make it work. On 13/02/2020 at 09:16, watch_your_fire said: On 13/02/2020 at 00:46, AnimeThighs said: On 13/02/2020 at 10:33, WilderHans said: On 15/02/2020 at 09:37, Inflatable_CampR said: Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers! Not meta. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. FRENCH ATGMS ARE NON-EXISTENT. Download Free PDF View PDF. The T29 has a better gun and marginally better mobility, as well as better mantlet armor. - Panther is a medium tank and cheaper to spawn. Done. Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? T-80U only fixes armor (although weakspots veeerrry preminent), slightly better HP/T (still -10 kph reverse though), and a slightly better reload (6.5s but still slightly slower than other 120mms). For special purposes I still have my Ju-288 with its two SC1600 bombs. The Tiger I is hard to play and inferior to the Panther! And that's just fighting american 6.7 with other 6.7s good luck in 5.7 vehicles when you get uptiered, lol. When you do see them, they won't make up 100% of the team composition and they won't even make up 100% of the UK composition since there is a chance for there to be Charioteers and Cent Mk 1s to be thrown into the mix. It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. People wildly overstate the extent of this. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. Well suited for precision bombing, its 2 guaranteed kills. I'd certainly replace the Hs 129B-2/MK 103 if the Bf 110G was a Tier III vehicle. Slow speed handling of the Panther is also very bad, making it a bad brawler in CQC situations where you most likely would have to turn with the traverse to get on target in that tank. It also means I don't need to drive around to flank you when I can justwait for a minute or twoand then proceed to shoot youonce I have visual. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all. With things as they are with just a little more zeal in pursuing the objectives, Germany would do just fine. I haven't shared your issues i go through a T series and it dies normally and I'm more prone to freak out if a IS-6 rolls over a hill than a T series. According to the complaint, the mobility differential between the Germans tanks and the others tanks means that the Germans simply cannot compete in RB GFs. That's where the Panther gets stuck due to bad low speed mobility. The funny part is that you say thatbut you give absolutely no reasonfor why you saythat. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. I agree that between 8.7 and 9.7 Soviets have overall bad mobility, but i strongly disagree that T80B, T80U and BMP3 have bad mobility. Of course the thick armor and good gun can be an advantage. This is why nobody takes anyone who believes in tygor syndrom seriously. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. What will you bring? 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. The Tiger IIs' cannons do not bounce like M18s on trampolines, no matter how much people pretend that they do. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc, Stock ammo of the Leo 1 is the same as every other 105mm L7 at 7.7. From mud, through blood, to the green fields beyond. Penetration analysis is bugged with AP and APDS. Powered by Invision Community, Addressing Germany's real problems: finding the truth behind "Germany suffers!". Powered by Invision Community. 25 best luchs images in 2020 panzer ii military. In that experience, I have found that. Everything about the HRE, NGC, GE, WR, GR, SP, FRG and GDR. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. And their armor won't save them. There is 0 reason why an AD-4 or P-47 should be causing you any issue. But to the long 88 you can kill them rather easily. While I played my Germans at 5.7, uptiers beyond 6.0 were very rare. The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). warrior412, February 10, 2020 in General & Upcoming, Germany has a p-47 just like the allies? It has a good gun, but it is about as slow as it gets, not to mention it makes the panthers reverse speed look fast. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? Not enough apparently the M41 appears to be shrouded in mediocrity that is the M41. Nope but you will have your own luxuries instead, the fact that you knew what he was trying to pull off and decided toplan his demise in advanceand he won't have aclue until its too late. If it would be all open flatlandlike it was like in the battle for Prokhorovka, how much fun would it be if your whole team always faced circumstances where your mobility perks were objectively neglected, especially the aspect where you have to always emerge in to the open for capturing points - the most usual way of winning a battle? All these three things are in fact WT top tier meta. Eh, you can get the same effect with having a slow vehicle suddenly appear where no one expects it at a particular time, it also brings a more shock and awe effect as its victims try to fathem what they are looking at and how it gotthere, thegood times to be had Oh and by the way, many people do drive BT5s and M18 on high tiers because they are freaking fast and their guns can pen flanks of more modern tanks. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. Mobility is the aspect that most German vehicles are less focused on than their peers, but this is made up for by the Germans better firepower/armor than their peers. What plans do you have to try and tackle this issue? He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. One last thing I forgot is american tanks have .50s, so good luck aiming for weak spots when your enemy is blinding you and taking out your barrel literally as soon as he spots you. Forming a wide line and covering each other. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. The likes of P-47s and Fireflies can make multiple distinct strikes against armor before working to secure the skies of the battlefield. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. Its a fine argument, it fits into the"why would I drive over there to shoot them from 10 feet awaywhen I can sit here 1000+ meters away and kill them?" Any player should understand that, especially new players! The Ju-288C is breaking the super prop part of the game, what solutions are likely to be tried to solve this issue (I understand if you can't really answer this one)? Up until only pz 2 is miserable a bit compare to m3 or bt7 etc. This by the way also the reason why you quite often see the SDKFZ 234, a BR 2,7 vehicle, in 6.7 matches. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. For the record, I am always sporting a tank only line-up in ground battles, I just hate planes and helis in ground battles. To say that Germany suffers over this is wrong. Panther 2s didnt disappear. That's your personal preference. The issue is that T__ are better than every heavy in game all the way up until the IS-3, and their BR should reflect that. While an M18s speed might allow it to get to a point a few moments before a Panther would, the M18s lack of armor and less capable cannon burden it if something like a Panther arrives shortly thereafter. (Oh how many times I have shot the IS6 turret from 400m and all I did was turn the gunner yellow) Plus they have things like T44 which are very bouncy to the 88. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Only part of Germany that suffers is really top tier air. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. 1. ronica blake. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. By and large, Germanys main strength is firepower with armor being the secondary asset. But be aware of your week side armour. FRENCH AVIATION TREE IS A JOKE! If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Mobility: The complaint: One of the most common complaints that is leveled against the nation of Germany is a perceived lack of mobility. King Tigers are too slow and obvious to really bother with going for caps, and their armor isn't reliable enough to use as a spearhead for an attack. Otherwise we can also assume incompetent Panther players who just drive on the highest hill and stand in the open hoping that noone sees them and try to snipe enemies. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. (small note, i forgot the T__ has cast armor, it's frontal protection is actually 190mm at it's weakest. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. The tracks make it immune to long 88 and actually work as spaced armor against HEAT. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. According to the complaint, proof of German suffering is had in German win rates--which are often lower than their Allied peers WRs. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. It should be 6.7 or 7.0 at best. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. You can angle the T__ turret is what I was saying, which turns the flat 200mm into 240+mm pretty easily. The Panther by contrasthave close to no reverse. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? I lately used my FW190 D13 with one 500kg bomb as Fighter/Ground Attacker. I will never understand whats inside Gaijin dev team, but they should add a German Mig 29, instead of waiting until russia gets a better plane first, as always. Like this moments when the T95 suddenly reaches the cap point 10 seconds before the match ends. I don't think the hull of the king tiger is worse, it's obviously better, I'm just saying it's not better by a huge margin. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. Let me repeat that. But only at long range. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. King tiger turret is just a big flat sheet of 185mm armor. Unfornatly the 105mm Tiger II was phased out. Better late then never, only took them 5 years to catch up. In this video, I and a couple of friends play one of the best lineups in the game.#warthunder #germany #friends The game is based around combined arms battles on air, land, and sea with vehicles from the Great War to today. 7. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). Powered by Invision Community. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. I don't have too much preference on maps as a matter of range. And here comes the issue with uptiers. Samuel Tito Pessa. I'm also fine with the T30 at 6.7 since it has such a long reload, but the T34 really ought to be 7.0 just because of how ridiculous it is against 5.7s in a downtier. It works wonders unless you have to make a regressive retreat. An uptier will barely affect the performance of an M18. I like Abandoned Factory, I think Middle East is trash. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. You have to constantly be aware of this. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Then yes, M18 would be toast. And that goes for anyone regardless of nation. I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. I will keep the scope of this topic to relate to BRs 1.0 to 7.0 in RB, with the primary emphasis being on 4.X-5.X. If we only knew the do black people have bigger penis rate at which the penis size men earth how to make your dick bigger review porn hentai penis growth is cooling we might calculate back to this time with some assurance of certainty, always, however, on the assumption average penis size when not erect that the earth is simply a hot body cooling like any other hot body such, say, as a red . Come on, seriously? T28 with 305mm of frontal armor at 6.3? So don't play into his game, your typical player basereallygets a kick out of surprises. What's clear is how later German vehicles are designed to deal with tanks at long range, making use of frontal armor, penetreation and RoF. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. Other options like FW's with 1000kg bomb drops are just too bad in a fighter role, as well as the Me 262 Pulkzerstrer. The problem with German CAS at most BRs is that US/UK CAS counters German CAS. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. Its an endless cycle so you better get used to it. Also, you're very wrong about Tiger syndrome. And I've never lost my barrel to 50s ever in all the time I've played German tanks. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. That's just how a downtier works no matter the battlerating. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Same procedure as with Panthers. And its mo different than tiger 2 players shaking their turret to get a bounce. Want Germany to be more competitive at 5.3-6.7? Two world wars and two pandemics are just a few of the many historic events witnessed by Sister Andre during her 118 years. Grant was buried on 4 December 1995 at the cemetery opposite his mansion, with the funeral service held at St Peter and St Paul's Church, Hailsham, East Sussex. In the early days I would have now I just think its better to grab a turtle and snipe, small and fast is for fun whenyou want to explore or get bored. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! Isn't it also true that many of the people who play the soviet tree only play the soviet tree? Mobility is simply king in this game. Scriptures from many world religions, science facts, safety & reminder tips, cuisine, sports, books, art, music, movies, TV. Germany's problem,at least when it comes to ww2 vehicles, is lack of brawling vehicles past 5.7. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? Sometimes it works. Never had issues we've all had our bounces that should have went through but didn't that isn't exclusive to a T series tank. Plus there are only few maps thatfavor this strategy. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. By Oftentimes, if left unharnessed, the cannon birds have better potential to destroy multiple targets. Bouncing for when we are talking about the gun of Hellcat (especially the 90mm), Marder and Archer. Sohow exactly do I do that? According to the complaint, Germany suffers terribly under the weight of uptiers. He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. In a standard WT match, do I try to command people using the chat to go to certain positions which they won't do? The reverse speeds of all of these tanks mean you must step forward progressively, rather than figuring on advancing and reversing on a whim with them as you would with others. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. Has 7.1 second reload (slower than 6.7s of the 105 L7 guns), -6 gun depression, and only 17.3 deg/sec traverse, so it doesn't fit gun handling meta. - He will go around you (most maps allow that) and pop up in you rear. He usually has like 5 different options. Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. As a bad player I would say that German ground vehicles require a lot of patience to play effectively. You can go through things but often times you die. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. As if the game and the race to the capture point ends the moment they get to it and then it just sits there waiting for the Panther to roll in. Click here to jump to that post. Pretty unfair that almost all US tanks have those AA HMGs. Or this amazing times when you play the tractor simulator trying to get you slow vehicle to this surprising spot which takes you forever, and hoping that noone shoots or bombs you on the way there. You can use it, for the Tiger I lovers the way to go. If he sees that you do dare to cap he will just rush back because he has the speed. Think a bit ahead. - East Germany suffers! Charlotte Elizabeth, Principalities and powers in heavenly places, 1842. Yeah why wouldn't it? Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. If we're going to go with just the general platitudes then it's kind of a boring discussion that you would clearly be winning if we don't take a deeper look at the issues with German mobility other than "keeping pace", whatever that means. But to argue the tiger 2 has a worse hull than the T series is a joke. Yes, with an M18 I am also eaily killed from the front due to lack of armor. Considering Im an experienced player who has done quite well in some Germany tanks that have been thoroughly derided, Id lean towards saying youre justwrong. Also hull down does not stop long 88 or 100mm from penetrating you and kill or wipe out your turret crew. Is this what we might expect at some point? I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. Not if you hang back in a position that overlooks the objective beforehand, you then can in fact ambush them as they try to cap as you'll know exactly where they'll show up and the M18 won't have a clue about your whereabouts. Nah, Freeaboos bash on Germany when its day in Murica and Wheraboos say Deutschland suffers when its day in Yurop (although the Wheraboos are mostly on the Forums and not on Reddit so you don't see Wheraboo posts often) . Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. Top tier meta is good survivability, mobility, and gun handling, as armor doesn't matter with laser rangefinders and high velocity APFSDS along with lots of CQB maps making weakspots easily hit. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. You don't want that then that is fine, noted. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. Simply replacing them with a JPz 4-5, Ru 251, or M41 could raise their combat effectiveness 5 fold, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. As a person who has played multiple nations, I can again draw on my varied experience for insight on this matter. If anything i insist you grind out to the T34 play about 100 games you'll tend to find that the two are rather close to compare. A T34 hull down has 200-300mm of frontal protection, 150mm-200mm of side protection, and 200mm of rear protection. But in that case the T95 is also a good flanker. I myself often wonder why German players don't just take out their CAS when playing against 5.7-7.7 brits for example, since most of the brit tanks at that level can be easily penned even by .50 cal weapons from the air. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. To say that . Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. I've had heat go through and kill the guy that fired the round but never not blocked the shot. (If you can tell us, ofc I understand you might not be able to.) Ok, so you don't agree that it is easier to flank with small and fast vehicles? He can just wait till you start to cap and go around you. What? Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. Well one or two not that much but a bit more and flying becomes more problematic. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. He travelled over doctor oz supplement ed Greece and Arabia, and wrote a history of the doctor for gods, in which . And just to be fair, the introduction of M41 to the German tree has improved the situation dramatically. Jagdtiger? FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. 5. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. You don't exactly want to pull a pivot turn when in city combat, with it's horrible side armor. By Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. Has 3 crew and carousel, so it doesn't fit survivability meta and it's armor can be penned by 9.0 premiums. Most matches against germany is like this, constant spam of Me 262's, arados, Do 335's, He 219's. So many BS planes capable of taking out 5-10 tanks before running out of ammo (but you know, US CAS is soo OP) Worst thing about it, allies can't do shit back. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. -ifa potential target learns the maps thisscenario can be avoided, - If the slow tank manages to guess the attack strategy of the faster tank he can setup and counter-ambush, - if there is position that overlooks the entire cap point and if you can reach it fast enough (so should be on your half of the map), - if you take your time to get to the cap point and the M18 doesn't use this time to simply cap. Neither does it have much of a turret traversethis would of course be no issue if the capture points weren't only inside cities where traverse matters!). The long 88 can kill the Cent before it can point precisely on its turret cheek. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. The m41 is a welcomed addition. Same procedure as with Panthers. Terrible survivability (carousel and 3 crew). Despite the hype, Allied fighter-bombers are not hypermaneuverable UFOs when they're laden with their payloads--they're easy meat for things like the Bf 109s and La-5s. The M18's like any vehicle that doesn't get shot. What do you expect? Denying that problem only makes it worse. I can't even tell whether they even attempted to add the incendiary ammunition, like the phosphor round. Manual Engine Control. And the side of the turret doesn't really mean alot as you can still punch through it with basically the same thing as the other you die no matter what so if you good up that shot its on you. Thread seems to highlight points some might see as a way to improve gameplay. The turret armor isn't much. Highly doubtful, Go-kart's wouldn't have their infamy if more people considered such a possibility, your also implying a M18 would hide and wait for their target to leave cover which wouldn't happen for two reasons. Add the EBR 1954 Version in the Tech tree, add the French Tiger 1 'Bretagne', add the French stabilised gun variant of the AMX-10RC and AMX-30 in the main tech tree . Because heat rounds don't care about armor. His vocals stand in contrast with the somewhat polished production. Turret is 200mm at it's weakest and will bounce if the enemy angles or is at long range. Seems many new players fell to this trap. . You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. germany 5.3-6.3 problem its the same as soviet mbts 8.7-10.3 problem. Fapadoska, 1 hour ago in Questions to the Team. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. This trend follows most nations and Germany is no exception. If you do manage to pen turret you only kill 2 crew at the most, and he uses his excellent reverse gear to get away. Probably you should just Okha the last bomb into the target, cause rearming takes too long anyways. encyclopedia. The allegation is that because the Germans Tigers and Panthers cannot keep pace with the Americans M18s, the Russians T-34-85s and other like vehicles that the Germans simply cannot compete with these vehicles or the teams that use them. Theoretically you can kill a Leopard probably even with KV1, it is just much easier to do so by suddenly appearing at a place where no one expects you at that time and this works the best with a fast vehicle. This puts Germany in a lose/lose position when choosing their plane to call in. panzer ii ausf l luchs mit bildern panzer panzer ii. Is a panther really a good vehicle for flanking? Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? - If it is a sufficiently big map he will just cap before you even get to see the cap point. By observation, I guess, a lot of players dont do this. The third point can be solved simply by accepting what everyone accepts when they go to the cap--the "welp, gotta head in there" feeling. The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. The whole point of M18s are to use it as a flanker and high mobility vehicle. I've been playing the Su-100P lately (pretty underrated, but could still use a lower BR to match the regular Su-100) and it baffles me how many pumas I am seeing from 5.7-7.7. Germany should rely on armor but more often than not it is countered with vehicles that can lol pen. that I won't be able to catch if I miss (only to in best case scenario get about 2k sl from the kill)? In a 1 on 1 I would just throw a dice and pick one possible option hoping that he will appear there? Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. so german jets are not useless compared to their opponents? None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. It requires however quite some skill to shoot targets in RB from a far and you still lose if noone caps. Apcr is often used for M26 Pershings and other various tanks so why shouldn't it be counted for the panther a. As said above, aircraft carriers don't exist in arcade. 1. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. Yes, but we should be discussing balance based on tanks that are actually in the tech tree. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. And as I've tested myself it was consistent to take out the 2 crew members on the one side of the breach ay 400 meters. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. With no premiums in the medium br.s it is difficult to break even. Wouldn't you agree that having a small and fast vehicles helps immensely to flank? While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. It's not pleasant to head into an area that's being directly contested, but if you want to win that's how you do it. And since most Panther drivers know that, they usually just camp. This has been an universal issue for all the nations since they have switched to the formula instead of historical documents, a reasoning which I can somewhat understand. A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. Which isn't as many as the P-47 you still get access to the same 1,000 pounder and 500 pounder it gets just not at once. Ferdi is 7.0 and I did managed 17 kills a match. Objectives are death traps usually placed in a way that does favour German CATs, but you know that quite well. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. Uptier your Panthers that can't even penetrate the side of the T__ turret? I bought the premium centurion to grind britain and rarely had this problem. while proclaiming yourself in some sort of 'neutral good' position. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. Join the Discord Here: https://discord.gg/cgctjTR5hjHope you all enjoy this video/short from an interesting moment in-game! .50 CALs are overpreforming by a mile. There is no tech tree 6.7 medium tank now, what are you supposed to play if not a Tiger II? Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. Because heat rounds don't care about armor.
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