The action, for those who are more familiar fishing graphite rods, is quite easy to get used to. The point here being, if we can define areas along the straight line or linier taper. 0.232 (Lee Koch), I primarily use RodDNA for my taper selection. I assume that he extrapolated those measurements. 70 0.261 133729 Casting range allows for some delicacy up close and personal, to the times that you want to reach out and touch someone a bit further away. 0.214 (Steve Weiss). (Stephen Dugmore). One of my favorite rods is a linear taper with a "slope" of .290/100". What physical characteristics make a taper roll cast well. Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. 0.088 In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. Manchester, VT 05254 However, a straight line taper will create a rod in which the angle of deflection will increase from the butt to the tip at linear (constant)rate. Maybe it is the version of the taper they are making, there are several out there. Lyle Dickerson Spurred into rodmaking by losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on to become one of the masters of the craft. The taper I used was from "The Lovely Reed." 0.178 35 0.162 166451 Should be a very nice rod, good Taper. I will let Bob speak to the numbers and how they were derived. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. 25 0.142 158834 So it seems that we are actually in complete agreement. by avyoung 06/16/16 18:33, Post Most of the classic rodmakers continually "fudged" their tapers over the years (sometimes unintentionally due to machine and pattern wear, and sometimes deliberately). (Bob Norwood). Neither of the Powell's on Hexrod are straight taper, I have no Winston tapers handy. (Robin Haywood). 35 0.1695 Different tools for doing different things. From 80 to 85, there is an increase of ~.070. What does the taper of a rod that roll cast well look like? 20 0.131 154180 He has two Dickerson 7613 tapers, from 1952 and 1970, that show dimensions for a butt ferrule that would be 14/64 and a tip ferrule of 13/64. I own one of his 7612s and it's a wonderful rod. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. The rod action will not resemble a straight line taper any longer. 0.288 His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. As a general rule, a 12/64 gives you a four weight, a 13/64 a five, 14 or 15 a six. Dickersons original taper was as Mark stated and a true 5 wt. Click here to directly compare the action of the 5 weight tapers marked with an asterisk ( * ) below. Is the 8013 just a 6" longer 7613 or what are the differences? In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. (Timothy Troester). Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. BTW, Paul, different strokes for different folks. Except that they are US rated and thus #5's! The stepdown in the female is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule goes over the bamboo to 12/64 ID where it accepts the male slide. 0.266 It's a 7 wt too but being a little shorter is easier on the arm and shoulder due to the shorter lever arm length. ever wonder why all those 10 1/2/64 Heddons broke at the female ferrule? anyway that's how I do it. (Dennis Higham). (Paul Blakley), I have a taper for the Dickerson 7613 and am a little confused. Consider this, the aspect of looking at tapers as deviations from straight lines is most valid when you are designing from numbers and not from stress or deflection. They are very nice 5 weights ( IMHO it is THE 8 5 wt). A Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper. by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post These are our limited edition models, only released every few years. So the data exists both ways in the spreadsheet. 0.369 (Will McMurrey). Ya'll, I have built this & I use a 6 weight forward on it. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. The other issue is mandrels and they just don't come in 1/128 sizes. 95 0.3435 (Tom Bowden). I think of it as an 8013G. Only lost 1/2 inch in rod length. 55 0.2275 An 861711 would be an 8 1/2' three piece, with the butt-to-mid ferrule being a size 17, and the mid-to-tip ferrule being a size 11. Made several of them. I did subtract the .006 when I made mine and I love it as I do every Dickerson taper that I've cast. Its the old problem, everyone wants to tell us what they think the answer is, but they never want to tell us why in terms unequivocal and universal! Nowadays, some guys machine ferrules out of bar stock, and they have a reasonable way to make the openings different sizes on the top and bottom. I would be interested to hear Bob Norwood's approach on this issue. 10 0.101 154505 (Reed Guice), Dickerson used the ferrule sizes in the rod to denote both the ferrule and the number of pieces in the rod. 0.334 So now where do you add or subtract material and what effect will it have on the rod. (Mark Wendt), Dickerson (like all of us who draw their own tubing) used 1/64 wall tubing to construct his ferrules. (Inches) (Inches) Stress 50 0.203 148510 But if you are just interested in a rod made on a Dickerson taper, then any number of qualified makers exist. (Jerry Foster). Here's a classic Winston from the Hexrod taper archive. (Robin Haywood), This would be very easy, but would impact on other desirable qualities. The Paul Young Perfectionist. First found in the United States in 2014 in southeastern Pennsylvania, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the eastern states. I think we can say that adding more material to a tip section would produce more power and reducing material on the tip section will increase accuracy and delicacy of fly presentation. (Ted Godfrey), I can say the one I don't like is the one in Ray Goulds fine book, 'Cane Rods, Tips and Tapers', page 85. The only question that puzzles me is why on earth he thought this might be important for fishing the Risle, which is hardly the Tay. Acclaimed as one of the finest rod tapers ever conceived. (If memory serves me right Tony Young sells step down ferrules for Dickerson rods, so you may try that.) by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post Can't remember which is which without looking in the book, but one is lighter than the other. 0.320 I will suggest that rodmakers as a whole are not (especially the "classics" who were trying to make a living by banging out rods), but also that minor variances of a few thousandths occurring at random do not have a large impact on the rod actions as a whole. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Users can select the appropriate Morgan Handmill Cutter to match the geometry including both the 60.5 and 61.5 degree cutters for hex rods. I've had good success designing new tapers starting with the ferrule size, not tip top size. Hmmm. I get tired of hearing that kind of comment. So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. This rod belonged to rodbuilder Tim Bedford. Ephemera, empherma and Ephemerella.. Photos, paintings, written stories and talents. And, after you "get used to it" you will fall in love with this rod taper. The 8013 is an 8' 0", 2/2, 5wt., 4.35 oz. 0.288 I fail to see anything in the manor of specifications for your making a point that you feel there is a difference between the two, in fact I would like to show you that they are, under the right conditions, EXACTLY THE SAME. Yes, there are specific applications for a 7'6" 5wt here in Michigan. The 7012 HB is super light, and can cast with the best of them. I personally have never been able to use them to describe the characteristics of a taper. 0.369 Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. Unknown, so I would hesitate to speculate. A taper is a fishing rod term that defines the rod length, optimal line weight, and rod flex action. Apparently, the 'old masters' were just building fishing rods and not too worried about picking the fly poop out of the pepper. A 2pc rod is much less vulnerable to breakage when fitted that way than a 3pc tip ferrule. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. John's the guy. Just giving a different perspective and what has worked for me. 75 0.2855 Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 15 .128 .274 (Todd Talsma), I had rather hoped that I might finesse out of someone just what these specific requirements might be. 70 0.271 As for roll casting, the only person I know who documented his thoughts was Wayne Cattanach.. is obviously your opinion, which you are entitled to. In case you didn't get the taper before, here it is: 0.066 (There is a table of blue numbers for each rod section). Jim P. you have some great choices there. Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods. The 1952 Dickerson is similar to the GW except it's a 5/6 wt. He can correct this if he is still hanging around. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) 6-strip Tonkin bamboo Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. Consider this one if your maker plans on using Super Z ferrules. November - May Starting at a tip dimension specific to a given line weight you add diameter to the length of the rod in linier increments until you reach the rod length you want. (four piece) carbon fiber spey blank. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. Perhaps you can see why I think that a 1500 cane rod may be a bargain! by canerodscom 05/09/09 02:32, Post 0.144 Halstead. When things are stated incorrectly, many of the newer makers on the list can get very confused. Dickerson was a self-taught rodmaker who designed his own rod-milling and planing equipment. (Lew) Parks. I really must stir myself to come and fish them, it's time that's the enemy. Here are the numbers someone else posted earlier this year for the Dickerson 8014 GS. Interesting thoughts on line weight and the first 20", I will have to roll that one around in my head for awhile. Reducing material in the butt section will make the butt more limber and allow flex deeper into the butt. .but like most opinions you will find that many on this list (and in the world at large) are not going to agree with you. and .360@45. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. (Will Price), I have noticed several folks mention the Dickerson 8014. In fact I've just made a new tip for it as the original developed a kink when being cooked to set off the UHU which no amount of ironing will remove. It also is fine on smaller streams. The 7613 Golden Witch version, a 6 wt, has a somewhat softer tip than the 8013 getting stronger toward the lower tip. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. Kind of sounds like a pro Pickard crowd here. The top snake guide on the butt has a bit of a bend to it. John Pickard only way to go. It seems that a Garrison-type taper with a straight, flat stress curve would be the most likely to be tolerable. - Led Zeppelin, 10 Years Gone. The American Museum of Fly Fishing Collection Gift of . the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. But if you decide to tell the world that this is therefore the right way to design a fishing rod then I'm going to disagree with you!" It might depend, but only a bit, on what you call "very nice" and I see that your figure for station rise was almost exactly the figure I suggested. (Robin Haywood), Is 8'4" a bit long for a 4 wt.? (Greg Reeves), TipsHome - What'sNew - Tips - Articles - Tutorials - Contraptions - Contributors - Search Site - ContactUs - TaperArchives 85 0.3145 Station Diameter (Jerry Foster), Where do you get that? Some rods, I think, have a regional quality to them, too, and just holding them gives one a kind of flavor of a particular time and place. by mosquito 05/08/09 09:33, Post A significant part of that application are the prejudices of the person who is going to be using it. (John Channer), Well, the #13 Payne ferrules that I've mic'd had a female ferrule internal diameter of .203" and the step-down internal diameter of .1875". Some good stuff here. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. 0.196 (Larry Swearingen), Sorry about the double question, original question appeared lost in cyberspace. Looking at the 5" dimensions for the Dickerson 7613 (1970 taper), there is a big swell under the grip. As we all know, rods can often cast line weights one up and down from their designated ones. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. I don't find the 7'6" length to be too short. Dennis looked over his rod and it, too, has two nodes right next to each other. Spurred into rodmakingby losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on tobecome one of the masters of the craft. to use it on trout other than the Yough, Savage River reservoir and some lakes. 2 wt 0.0585 This should cause some debate as a lot of our American cousins rave about this wimpy stick? 0.275 Did I just read something about someone saying Dickerson rods are outclassed by today's makers? So the question - I have been trying to define the specific characteristic that each basic deviation from the SLT imparts to the action of the rod. he then concludes with a diabolical smile. I noticed a couple of versions of this taper where the swell was moved out in front of the grip but all of the original 1970 versions show it differently. 0.189 Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. It made a fine rod, but you have to smooth out the taper leading into and out of the 45 and 50" stations as the rod was designed for a step down ferrule. 0.120 Chris likes it for Smallmouth on the Shenandoah. These were Bailey Woods stepdown ferrules. I would agree that one system is not all encompassing and I agree with the selection of evaluating criteria you outlined. It's the important half, too, the other one is less important than line weight, I refer you to the basic laws of aerodynamics, this post is already too long! Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. $ 1950us w/two tips, DICKERSON 7012 - 7' 2/2 - 4wt- honey colored - medium action, wonderful 4wt$ 1950us w/two tips. Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. 25 .156 .310 20 .143 .292 ChristmasMissives - ChatRoom - PhotoGalleries - LineConversions - TheJourney - ExtremeRodmaking - Rodmaker'sPictures - Donate - Store. The butt has a long flex area from 45"- 75" and a butt swell. I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. It is truely a wet fly action - great for those soft hacles. To my knowledge there are at least 3 versions of the 7613 out there. 20 .245 .130 by slate river 05/10/09 16:30, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. by dkrismer 06/12/16 20:36, Post 0.369 I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. Please allow up to 120 days for completion of your new rod. Hardy Fly Fishing Rod Trout Fishing Rods & Poles 8 Guides, Hardy Fly Reel Trout Fishing Reels, Hardy Trout Fishing Rods & Poles, The stepdown in the male is from a 14/64 ID where the ferrule initially goes over the bamboo and steps down to 12/64 ID for the bamboo inside of the male slide. Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. For my money I can think of a couple of rods I like better than anything Dickerson made. 0.292 You can do all the compensation you like for varnish thickness, ring weight and ferrules but you will still not produce anything like as good as a properly calculated compound taper rod. (Gordon Koppin), If I might ask: Which Perfectionist taper do you favor? Powell Rods. (Chris Obuchowski), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise. The rod is currently 7'-2" after a test fit so I want to trim to the correct 7-0 length. In practice most people these days do not take well to these technically correct ideas, preferring a slope to the straight line, giving higher strain levels near the tip, i.e. Special Note on this rod/ All the snake guides on the tip are 2/0 and the mid are 1/0 with a 8 stripper on butt section. I was contemplating a rod with a 3.5 ft tip section and interchangeable butt sections of maybe 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths. Just like the makers of Ping golf clubs, who ban their retailers from selling on the internet, I do not see how it is possible to make a rod for someone without the presence of that person for a considerable time on a casting court. (David Zincavage), You can inform your authority that he is wayyyyyyyyyy off base!! 0.241 I'm off to the antipodes next year, and I'm hoping that the 7'6'' #5 that should be a #4 will go with me. 0.334 If you would like to give Michigan a try, let me know. What you have done is show the slope to the tip to butt. The mid sections are very different. Jim Schaaf. (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? The part of the ferrule that fits on the bamboo on the female side (butt side) had an inside diameter (ID) of .221", or 14/64. 8ft #5wt. He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. My first few 8013's have 13/64 ferrules and one of them broke off INSIDE of the ferrule. Powered by Shopify. But all right is not a euphemism for excellent. 0.093 To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. I have a tough time roll casting over about 65' with any rod, no matter how long or limber. Measure over original varnish. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. 0 0.072 - The biggest discrepancies are around the ferrules, and you'll notice in many "classic tapers" flattening of the slope into and out of the ferrules - presumably to make fitting a tapered peg into a cylindrical hole easier. If you were to design rods using a visual representation of it's deflection then deviation from a straight line doesn't matter. If you are building in the drop at the ferule that Dickerson used, you will usually end up using a size larger ferrule than you'd normally think. Interests: Building bamboo fly rods (occasionally), fly fishing for trout. (Mark Wendt), I checked the several places that I usually look for tapers and they all had the swell starting at 80". Crisp, strong, smooth, versatile. That's not a lot to ask is it? I've made at least a dozen Perfectionists (most with a swelled butt so they aren't exactly the same) and all their owners love them. One authority I know claims Jim Payne actually built more fly rods than Orvis. We now have solid parameters around which to modify, to refine rod design characteristics. The slope of the taper of this rod is .014/5" or a B-8.4 (taking the average drop from 80" thru 0"). "Proper amounts" and "correct points" are hardly scientifically precise terms, so I regret that I don't know what you might mean. Pickard makes nice rods for sure. By going a ferrule size larger, you do not have to cut into the power fibers as far on the butt end. The last page shows our interpolated numbers, on 5 inch stations, with varnish already subtracted, using both the Howell method (measure stations from the butt up) or the "classic" method (measure stations from the tip down.) (Mark Wendt), Was the varnish allowance of .004 already subtracted from the numbers for the 661510, or does it need to be done? So I thought I would answer that question and build one. (Chris Obuchowski). The Lovely Reed by Jack Howell has numbers for the 1949 and 1951 versions. 0.138 . Do any rod makers sells rods they do not like? Part of the midwest cadre of noted builders, he built rods from the 1930's onward and was especially known for his fast two-piece rods. 0.160 Common sense tells me to leave the middle of the taper . Thanks for the feedback, very helpful. 30 0.155 0.229 They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. The swell should start in front of the cork, at least 3" to 5". At Headwaters Bamboo Rod Company we build our rods based on proven "historical" tapers, meaning that the tapers we use were designed by Twentieth Century bamboo fly rod craftsmen. 50 0.213 Edwards Edwards #25 Quad - 7ft 4wt light tip The line weight standards are simply points in what is really a continuous spectrum. Rod makers history, value guide and general discussion, Link to Orvis Database by Greg Reynolds, Link to EC Powell's Mechanics of fly casting. The rod in question has a test curve of 4 ozs, by the way. Experience the difference of a Mystic Fly Rod on your next expedition. (Gary Nicholson). 0.153 Some use this to define the average rod speed. All he needed to do was speed up the butts, preferably with a concave taper form, and he would really have been cooking with gas! I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! Whether you're picking out your very first fly-fishing rod or coming in for a new modern fly reel after years out on the water, Sportsman's Warehouse can supply you with the very best fly-fishing equipment. I think the 8014GS is up to the task. I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. Again, there is slight flattening around the ferrule, and I suspect the measurement at 35" is due to machine operator error/technique rather than designed in. (David Atchison), Wondered if anyone had the taper for the Dickerson 8012 laying around. In fact, as the requirements of a stream rod are very simple, this is what we do. 25 0.1405 (John Channer), I have never been able to describe to anyone else how a rod feels to them. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. The Dickerson 7612 taper a smooth medium action 4 wt that is 7 1/2 long in a 2pc. Lyle Dickerson oft written about little powerhouse of a rod. I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. 40 .202 .375 (Robin Haywood). 0.248 My original point, with which you took issue, was: I just wanted to make the point that there's a difference between a rod with a straight taper and one with a straight, flat stress curve. Forgot to mention before, Rich Jezioro is taking a set of 11-12/64 ferrules to Grayling for the silent auction for me, so if anybody's interested you can see them there if you're attending. 0.214 In terms of rod design I think that it is really worthwhile considering as many design approaches as possible when trying to design and assess tapers. Are there specific numbers at the ferrule for, say, an 8013 where a 14/64's ferrule is used? 0.168 Fly Fishing Supplies & Gear. Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) (Larry Swearingen). I think the perfectionist is a fine taper and rod. 0.350 13/12. I would specifically urge all to look at the graphs. Dickerson 8015 Guide Special By Jim Schaaf, 2458 - 11. Grayrock 96. If you are looking for a Dickerson rod or have one that you would like to sell please contact us. My 2 cents. 9 wt 0.0890. Good question and I will tell you as soon as I finish my 5wt SLT. Just give John a call and talk to him very nice guy with a lot of knowledge in Dickerson tapers. CFRF Tapers Tapers from Classic Fly Rod Forum The links below are to "classic" tapers posted to the Classic Fly Rod Forum (http://classicflyrodforum.com) in the Taper Exchange subforum. You can vary the slope to get the "speed" you want (Garrison's are .013/5"; a B-9 .015/5"; and I've built them as fast as .018/5"). 8 wt 0.0830 I have one of his 7625's, and it's a great rod, being a 7613 replica. the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. Besides, he's a fun guy to chat with about almost anything to do with fly fishing and the outdoors.
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